ACEs miss the hidden trauma of narcissistic families
Think your low ACE score means your childhood wasn’t traumatic? If you grew up with a narcissistic parent, there’s a lot your score may have missed. This video reveals what traditional ACEs scoring often overlooks—and why the emotional abuse in narcissistic families deserves more attention.
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
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I’ve always wondered why ACE didn’t really show how damaged I feel.
Same.
I felt like ACEs was indeed a list of harmful events that could happen. And the list does include ”neglect” but only in terms of physical absence.
It does not do a good job of questioning what did NOT happen, especially emotionally. For example, it does not define emotional abuse, emotional parentification, emotional betrayal etc. And therefore, this questionnaire does not help people through defining their experience of such dynamics, or quantifying them.
I feel like some items (at least 2 or 3) regarding emotional safety, and parental support of emotional growth/autonomy, need to be added to the ACEs for a more complete picture.
They need to add another ACE , religious abuse or cult like environment. Extreme MLM coercion qualifies too.
Yeah I think that too, it’s already bad dealing with the families internalized system, but when your “village” sides against you for things you can’t control it feels like the world is crushing you. It only amplifies the belief system of the person who abuses you
Laura E. Anderson who wrote “when religion hurts..” developed one.
I’m so glad you’re talking about family narcissism, I hope you continue on the topic. You can get away from a narcissist you dated, or even married, but you might never get away from a narcissistic family. This abuse can be very subtle, the narcissistic family will look great to outsiders, but you the target or the one caught in the middle, could spend your whole life struggling. Narcissistic families make decisions for your life before you’re old enough to make them or even understand. This is where I’m currently stuck for almost a decade now… I got lucky last year and received some money that would allow me to leave, but I have no where to go. I could buy a ticket to anywhere, but I be arriving to nothing when I get there, the world itself has become narcissistic and it no longer seems doable to just pick up and start a new life somewhere else without millions of dollars. To give you an example of my abuse, I don’t get wished a happy birthday, every other day I’m treat just about fine, but on my birthday they get cold, harsh, neglectful, they make a special day a painful day. So a couple years ago I decided not to be around on my birthday. I leave the house at 4:30am when no one is up, and spend the day alone, I don’t come back home until late at night when everyone is asleep. The first couple times I did this I’d cry, but this year I didn’t cry. My father doesn’t speak to me at all unless it’s my birthday, I get the obligatory “happy birthday, peace and blessings” but I never hear from him or see him at any other time, this year I didn’t respond, I’ve finally given up thinking that he cares.
This is so tough, and you’re right, it’s so much harder to leave family especially without that winning lotto ticket and even then how much better can we find out there. But I’m so glad you are seeing and taking steps to make your own experiences a tiny bit better with realistic expectations and doing what you can to make yourself as happy as possible away from them. Sending you so much love and hugs and peace and healing.
I deeply felt this ❤❤❤❤ ❤!!
Can I ask how old you are? Your insight is a great power for you even though it’s probably a great source of the pain you must grieve. It’s taking me decades to recognize this dynamic in my family of origin. I mostly free of the trauma bond, but it shows up I love my family and recognize that they have never liked me. It’s wild.
Choose something you can achieve. A job that pays above minimum wage look for a room to rent rather than a house or apartment this can give you community and affordability.
Jobs that pay above minimum wage can be found at Aldi, UPS, Costco. Trader Joe’s has excellent benefits. These are things that can get you started in independence and healthy communities. Promise yourself that you will show up. Show up for work. Commit to paying for your rent a day early use a bicycle or public transportation if you can.
Eat smart. Buy meat that has just been reduced at the grocery store dump a bag of vegetables into a pot until it’s cooked. Live on that and it’ll keep you healthy a long time fill up your water bottle with the best water you can find at work or at home filtered.
Finally, look at yourself in the mirror and repeat after me: my family has a serious illness. I am a good and capable human being. I am lovable I can love I can and will be loved.❤ you got this!
Move sonewhere else pkuck up your courage
@@diannalamantia1518Thank you for sharing these valuable steps they do work very well once committed to them. ❤ may whatever higher power you subscribe to bless you
Until I began learning about narcissistic neglect I believed I had a wonderful life as a child. Turns out my memories were of tv programs that I watched. I have no real memories of any conversations or happy interactions with my mother. Half my adult life I felt completely unseen and unnecessary. ACEs explains quite a bit.
I appreciate you talking about the dynamics of narcissism in the family because it helps me understand a lot of the feelings ive had over the years that I just chalked up to “there’s something wrong with me”
My Aces score was 6 and I’ve got siblings who’s is higher, but none of that even touches the mistreatment of being born to a religious cult founder/leader and the other parent being borderline /vulnerable narcissistic. I scored pretty high as well on Patrick Teahan’s wonderful quiz that covers some of these childhood experiences (he created it because he’s worked with so many clients who fall under the categories you discussed). I think years ago I knew that in spite of my own detailed and devoted attempts to have as healthy a lifestyle as possible, it’s still not likely a matter of if, but which ones and when I’ll end up with chronic illness, autoimmune or other diseases. And this past year it showed up, I’ve spent an entire year and counting in trying to get back done sense of health and or even just a diagnosis. I often find myself angry, cuz I’ve struggled and strive my whole life to find some sense of peace and rest, safety and security have been illusive and I’m just now realizing any of that, even tho I finally learned about narcissism and have been slowly deprogramming the it’s all my fault my ex is hurting me and my child. It must be me who’s the problem is everyone I’ve loved has seen me as defective and not enjoy and worthy of such treatment.
I’m glad we’re finally discussing trauma, and narcissistic abuse and getting so much of your expertise out there. Thank you for your years of work and sharing this every day for the lady several years. You’ve really helped me and so many others, Dr Ramani. ❤❤❤
Right on target with Adverse Childhood Experiences Great job
Thank you for this. So many others don’t acknowledge or minimize it. Focusing on my healing. ❤️🩹 Grateful for this community ❤
If I could like your comment twice I would !
💯😍🙏
dr.Gabor Mate write about it in “When body says no” and you dr. Ramani and him do SUCH a great job about invisible deep abuse in families and other submissive systems
Exactly. I have said that as a child, teen, and now an old woman. You are such a graceful, talented articulate sparkly purple 💜. ❤ Woman. Thank you for getting the truth out about this
I hhave a narcissistic family and I have overcome so much. Now my daughter’s suffering from it…I wish to end the cycle.
Thanks for addressing this! Adult children of emotionally immature parents (father with undiagnosed Aspergers) are probably going to have issues. My lack of validation, support, compassion, and love led me narcissistic spouse. But I had a good ACES.
In our family, five kids lived it. I must have a higher ACE score as I didn’t thrive. After trying to talk about it with my siblings, I am left with a sense of gaslighted. I should have stayed no contact. If their ACE scores are actually high, they compensate for them, as you said about imposter syndrome. Since talking with each of them, I feel back in the bottom of the well due to the cognitive dissonance, if that is the right word. My mother even came to me in a dream. All this sucks, feeling like any healing work (several years) was worthless. But it not worthless. I saw the family dysfunction several years ago. I learned about narcissism and have worked on me since. My response to reconnecting with them knocked me down. Now, I just have to get back up. My strength will be that reconnection validated my perception. I needed that and it took several years of healing to have the courage to do it. This is my life. The little things are what I live by. That is enough.
This SO describes what I grew up with. I coped as a people-pleaser; I’ve climbed out of that, but it left me with a hyper-empathic alert system. Non-verbal messages are STILL much louder for me than anyone’s words.
The ACES helped me awaken to the fact that I had an abusive childhood/family and the impact it had on me. I had no idea because even during post secondary school in psychology the connections weren’t made about the maternal family of origin of child psychological abuse when I had been abducted and alienated from my paternal family. My score is 7. It was a huge eye opener in learning how to regulate my nervous system. How well that’s working, is yet to be determined 😅 somedays I feel great, other days I feel beat up. The body keeps the score and it hasn’t been easy to learn to release it and how it affects our health, holistically.
Thanks Dr. Ramani. I very much appreciate your work.
Strength to all of us who grew up with narcissistic parents — no matter if our trauma score is high or low. Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for including everyone
10 years ago I was a person with a mystery chronic illness who would get offended at my doctor when they suggested I get mental health treatment for my symptoms. Then I took the ACE Test and got a 5. The narcissist’s invalidation and gaslighting almost causes amnesia about your own abuse and memories.
When I was first diagnosed with ME in 2001, the doctor told me the same. My ACE score is 6, and I get it.
@denisedevoto5703 I also have ME. It was a viral onset following Epstein Barr in my 20’s. I was digging for my root cause for 20+ years. Could it be that hundreds of thousands of patients were abused and can’t make the connection?
@emilysnyder4857 EBV was the cause of onset for me, too. Can’t seem to shake it either. Every once in a while I get another active infection. According to a self-reported study, 60% of people who were diagnosed with ME were abused as kids. I wonder what the stats are for ME patients who were abused as adults by narc partners.
No one has ever believed how bad my childhood was because there was no physical abuse.
Thank you….being a paramount ACE; raised by two NPDs within a cult religion and family systems of abuse…..SA multiple times, plus add in my late diagnosis of autism and corpral punishment for my adhd ……..thank you thank you. At 48 I am finally untangling the emeshment and CPTSD being the scapegoat and survivor of EXTREME suicide attempt…..thank you.
Wow! You are an amazing survivor. I can relate to much of this, especially the punishment for my undiagnosed autism.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani 🤕😞 No words can describe how validating your words have on me and my inner child. emotional neglect/abuse is a death by a thousand cuts for a child.